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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 03:23 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:What you are not saying, but implying, is that the US Government and its minions, are more trustworthy than the Russians - again, an entirely baseless proposition...
That almost has to be the case given the political position of those under comparison, the more closed a society or political process is the less trustful you should be.
Truth has nothing to do with it, but our ability to find the truth does!
For example, how would Russia or China deal with it's own version of Wikileaks, would they even have one? Do you think the absence of it is a sign of virtue?
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 03:09 AM)LP link Wrote:The irony of your statement is all their hiding in your avatar!
Been reading the tea leaves again LP?
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 03:31 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:[quote author=LP link=topic=3283.msg190379#msg190379 date=1492052995]Been reading the tea leaves again LP?
The irony of your statement is all their hiding in your avatar!
[/quote]Don't have to, it seems pretty straightforward! ;D
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - mateinone - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 03:23 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:What you are not saying, but implying, is that the US Government and its minions, are more trustworthy than the Russians - again, an entirely baseless proposition...
I had not intended to imply it, I had intended to downright state it.
I also find it absolutely ludicrous that anyone genuinely believes that France and Germany, along with England are just proxies for the US and as for the former satellite countries, their basis for not trusting Russia as a nation is long established and nothing at all to do with the USA.
There is a reason that the the democratic countries in Europe (and here) follow a similar line to the US and China/Russia/Iran etc do not.
With Russia being less trustworthy... They allow less scrutiny and have often been known to trump up charges against dissidents who call into question their behaviors. This alone is a basis for questioning that trustworthiness.
I will state something else, anyone who thinks that European countries will not stand up to the US and tell them what they think, entirely misunderstands the continent and UK's relationship with the US.
All these years on they still consider US an upstart and do not want to be like the US and they are not afraid to state that.
What were the German & French positions on the war in Iraq?
They will have many common interests though and will often be on the same side of the table and this was obviously emphasised after WWII, where Europe was split firmly into communist Russia (and satellite states) and Western Europe. It was during this phase that Russia, through it's actions created a lot of mistrust, especially in some of the countries that were under it's control. For some to imply Euro countries mistrust Russia because the USA does and not because of their history in dealing with Russia is just simply not even close to true.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - PaulP - 04-13-2017
This all sounds a bit "goodies and baddies" to me. The US has been every bit as evil as the Russians. We just happen to be on the right side of the fence.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 05:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:This all sounds a bit "goodies and baddies" to me. The US has been every bit as evil as the Russians. We just happen to be on the right side of the fence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival
This book from a highly respected man has been around for years and spells things out. Essentially the US policies seem unchanged. There are also plenty of other writings on this subject.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 05:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:This all sounds a bit "goodies and baddies" to me. The US has been every bit as evil as the Russians. We just happen to be on the right side of the fence.
Is that "right side" from a political or societal perspective?
I had very religious and political uncle who always claimed communism sits at the foundation of Christianity, Islam and Buddism. I'm not religious, but I doubt the communism practiced by Russia or China has anything to do with religion. Perhaps I should ask a Tibetan or Tajik.
For me the distrust of a closed political and cultural system is always autocratic, I mean automatic. :
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Baggers - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 05:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:This all sounds a bit "goodies and baddies" to me. The US has been every bit as evil as the Russians. We just happen to be on the right side of the fence.
There you go. Exactly.
Wasn't it the US that dropped atom bombs on two cities in '45 when the war was already won? 100s of 1000s of humans killed. But because we're on the right side of the fence as you so well put it, we justify this action. What if Japan had wiped out nearly half a million Aussies in '45, would we apply the same rationale? POV, perspective.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Baggers - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 05:57 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival
This book from a highly respected man has been around for years and spells things out. Essentially the US policies seem unchanged. There are also plenty of other writings on this subject.
Good old Naom. One of the world's great thinkers, along with Gore Vidal... if you get a chance read some of his stuff on the US system.
I guess we have to remember that the US was settled by religious zealots and that righteous, pious attitude has permeated their psyche. Funny thing is that the words on their currency, 'In God We Trust', is the same Old Testament god that many other religions / peoples pray to.
Once again, it is the 'lesser of two evils' thing rearing its ugly head. Better the Yanks than the Saudis, for example, running the show. Some of the atrocities perpetrated upon its own peoples by the Russians, Chinese, some African/South American/Middle Eastern states... and so on, is an abomination and the lesser of two evils when compared to the lies and manipulations of US regimes.
Better a few corrupt cops keeping the streets safe for us all than letting the street gangs run the show.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Baggers - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:42 AM)mateinone link Wrote:Btw finding a conspiracy theorist is not hard, for any conflict. It doesn't mean that because they have an idea how it happened that their version is correct, a very large (VERY VERY VERY large) percentage of these conspiracies are bunkum
Don't you find it curious, at the very least, that so many folks who label those who peddle conspiracy theories as 'delusional' will happily march off to church to worship an invisible creature in the sky... now there's you're ultimate fairy story. And they don't think of it as a theory, but rather rock solid fact. Wow,
This bloke puts the whole religion farce (how dare I be writing such things at Easter and then exhibit the hypocrisy to enjoy the holiday!!!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE