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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - flyboy77 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:42 AM)mateinone link Wrote:Btw finding a conspiracy theorist is not hard, for any conflict. It doesn't mean that because they have an idea how it happened that their version is correct, a very large (VERY VERY VERY large) percentage of these conspiracies are bunkum
I'm not even talking conspiracy - i'm simply saying the US 'story' doesn't add up - and the known facts support this view....
I suppose you believe the official 9/11 story too?! :o :o
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - mateinone - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:50 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:I suppose you believe the official 9/11 story too?! :o :o
I mean this with all due respect.
I certainly don't believe that the US had anything to do with attacking themselves and I certainly do think it was run by Al Qaeda.
I was going to specifically point out 9/11 conspiracy theorists and those denying landing on the moon as two prime events where you give someone a pen (or a computer) and an audience and they can come up with something they believe is believable.
I can't even begin to go deeper into a retort if you honestly believe the US Government was complicit in 9/11
...
Also what known facts?
I think that is an amazing stretch to suggest that and one where most western governments without specific agenda for Syria disagree (Russia, Turkey, US, Syria & Iran are all examples of countries that have agendas).
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - mateinone - 04-13-2017
And to add to the irony of this..
If we lived in Russia (or China) right now, the same people that are claiming the US is making up the attack in Syria, would be potentially flagged as possible dissidents to keep an eye on for having the same anti-establishment thoughts (obviously a simple post on a forum is unlikely to attract anything, but if this same agenda was pushed continually, then absolutely).
Because in the west you are free to question everything without accountability or the the same level of threat of suppression (obviously here you can still be sued etc) then these discussions easily grow legs.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Baggers - 04-13-2017
To say that 'Russia' can't be trusted is something of a misnomer. The people of Russia, or USA, or here, or Madagascar for that matter are all pretty similar in many respects - most of us want peace, food, shelter, work, education and good health care.
When we talk of 'trust' in regard to certain nations we're in fact talking about their represented leaders and the bottom line is that both Putin and Trump are pathological liars. Too many politicians toe the party line and will manipulate 'facts' to suit their agenda/ideology or the corporation who is sponsoring them!!! We are all, and have been for a few decades now, when confronted with an election, voting for the lesser of two evils. Sad but true. There are some nations that do have respectable leadership that is committed to the wellbeing of its citizens and environmental realities. We hope that this kind of courageous/ethical leadership will continue to grow.
(Then you have the corporate/money influence... but that's another story that can only foster cynicism regarding leadership).
As for 'conspiracy theories', yes, some are laughable, some weird but when you have enough wild conclusion the truth can be hidden in some situations by assertions of 'another silly conspiracy theory.' There is a level of public conditioning to automatically interpret the words 'conspiracy theory' as BS.
Did the US land on the moon? Pretty sure they did, be pretty hard to keep that a secret! Though I do remember the highly intelligent Prof Magnus Clarke saying he believed it was rubbish and presented loads of scientific evidence to support his assertion that the moon landing was staged. Personally, I couldn't give a cr@p.
Though I do believe that anyone who thinks 9/11 is exactly what the US govt reports say is playing with themselves. More than three thousand architects have formed an organisation demanding an honest investigation into how those buildings 'really' collapsed... especially the third one. I'm pretty sure there is something very fishy about it all but I don't know what it is and don't want to jump to unsubstantiated conclusions until an honest and proper investigation is conducted.
There are only 3 things I personally don't trust: corporations, religion and my ex wife.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - mateinone - 04-13-2017
I am specifically avoiding 9/11 conspiracies, other than to say what I said earlier.
I actually meant the Russia as a political entity can't be trusted, as opposed to individual Russians.
Though there is certainly a general difference in the outlooks of say someone from Russia than someone from Sydney and this is generally caused through decades of the environment they have lived in I would (very strongly) suggest rather than any individual genetic trait.
Russia as a political organisation is considered considerably less trustworthy by the west than say the US, that is absolutely the case.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 02:28 AM)mateinone link Wrote:I am specifically avoiding 9/11 conspiracies, other than to say what I said earlier.
I actually meant the Russia as a political entity can't be trusted, as opposed to individual Russians.
Though there is certainly a general difference in the outlooks of say someone from Russia than someone from Sydney and this is generally caused through decades of the environment they have lived in I would (very strongly) suggest rather than any individual genetic trait.
Russia as a political organisation is considered considerably less trustworthy by the west than say the US, that is absolutely the case.
Well they would say that wouldn't they since pretty much all western nations of any consequence are vassals of the US.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 02:35 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Well they would say that wouldn't they since pretty much all western nations of any consequence are vassals of the US.
Is that as opposed to being democratic, open and politically accountable?
Personally, I don't think countries like the UK, France, Germany or India would appreciate your insinuations. You have basically labeled them puppets, Australia doesn't even fit in that category and we are more closely aligned than most! :o
Trump can ignore or dispute the media and public opinions but he cannot shut down free speech, unlike Putin, Kim Jong-un or Li Keqiang!
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 02:54 AM)LP link Wrote:Is that as opposed to being democratic, open and politically accountable?
Personally, I don't think countries like the UK, France, Germany or India would appreciate your insinuations. You have basically labeled them puppets, Australia doesn't even fit in that category and we are more closely aligned than most! :o
Trump can ignore or dispute the media and public opinions but he cannot shut down free speech, unlike Putin, Kim Jong-un or Li Keqiang!
I thought I made a pretty straightforward statement - no insinuation about it?
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 03:03 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:I thought I made a pretty straightforward statement - no insinuation about it?
The irony of your statement is all their hiding in your avatar!
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - flyboy77 - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 02:28 AM)mateinone link Wrote:I am specifically avoiding 9/11 conspiracies, other than to say what I said earlier.
I actually meant the Russia as a political entity can't be trusted, as opposed to individual Russians.
Though there is certainly a general difference in the outlooks of say someone from Russia than someone from Sydney and this is generally caused through decades of the environment they have lived in I would (very strongly) suggest rather than any individual genetic trait.
Russia as a political organisation is considered considerably less trustworthy by the west than say the US, that is absolutely the case.
What you are not saying, but implying, is that the US Government and its minions, are more trustworthy than the Russians - again, an entirely baseless proposition...