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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong (/thread-5994.html)
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - PaulP - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 05:34 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Jack is not a ruckman. If he rucks we lose.
I agree.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - LP - 03-25-2023
SoJ is given extra credits by fans for having his surname, it's always going to be that way.
But AFL is a brutal business, and perhaps some fans would be shocked to learn his surname means nothing to the MC or list managers.
If SoJ is selected he has to be selected on merit, and he has to retain his spot on merit, we can't be inventing roles just to give him a game, that is not how AFL works. Really, as much as it may disappoint fans, it's the way he'd want it!
At the moment I don't see a problem, for me if it's SoJ or Martin then SoJ gets a tick, but I think the problem for fans is that the MC is not likely to a regular spot for either player in that 3rd marking forward role. As forwards they are probably filling the last spot, as Mids they are at the bottom end of a long queue, neither are AFL defenders of note, and they aren't overly quick.
TDK and Pitto are miles ahead as a ruck combo, I feel fans dismissing TDK are being somewhat disingenuous simply because they know what it means for someone named Silvagni.
Pitto alone is not the answer, he is a good stoppage ruckmen and zoning defender but he's too one dimensional, TDK alone is not the answer, he is great floating forward but he is still developing as a ruck. SoJ isn't a great ruck option relieving either.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - ElwoodBlues1 - 03-25-2023
JSOS can be the third marking forward and retain his spot....Fritsch and Rohan are different players to JSOS but having that third established forward target helped Melbourne and Geelong win premierships. They dont have to kick big bags but just be part of the structure and know their role that makes the other more key players better, and I reckon Jack knows his role and is happy to sacrifice for the good of the team where ever he plays on the field.
For me he is an automatic selection given his attitude and ability to play multiple roles and I dont get why people want to give him the Khyber after one win vs a premiership hung over Geelong team and think we can now can get experimental and extravagant with selection.
The reality is if we lose to GWS this week then we are right back in the midpack shite again with just one win from three and Id be sticking with players who I can rely on to turn up and you know will play for the jumper...
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - DJC - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 05:34 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Jack is not a ruckman. If he rucks we lose.
X2
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - DJC - 03-25-2023
I sometimes wonder if other folk are watching the same games of footy ?
Jack plays most of his footy as a tall forward. When Charlie or Harry have a spell, Jack takes a key forward role. If all three are on the field together, Jack plays as the third tall. His lead up marking is very good and I believe that he takes more marks on the lead than our other forwards. He is also a good contested mark and he reads the play well and can find space away from his defender. Jack had a period when his goal kicking wasn’t that reliable. He’s addressed that and his ability to find a teammate inside 50 is very good. He also works hard on his defensive game and can play in defence if required.
Jack’s not a ruckman and, at best, he’s looking to neutralise the opposition rucks. When he does pinch hit in the ruck, our forward line is less potent and our midfielders less effective. Pitto and Tom can both clunk a mark in the forward line but they don’t have Jack’s forward craft.
Our best ruck combination is Pitto and Tom (with Mirkov waiting in the wings). It shouldn’t be too hard to work out a rotation that keeps pressure on the opposition rucks and defenders and makes life difficult for the opposition forwards.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - kruddler - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 05:34 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Jack is not a ruckman. If he rucks we lose.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.....
When we played 1 ruck + Jack
R4 - LOSS vs Gold Coast - Cripps got injured/subbed out
R5 - WIN vs Port
R7 - WIN vs North
R8 - WIN vs Crows
R9 - WIN vs GWS
R10 - WIN vs Syd
R11 - LOSS vs Coll - 4 point loss, Weiters subbed out in the 1st quarter
R13 - WIN vs Ess
R14 - LOSS vs Rich
R15 - WIN vs Freo
R16 - LOSS vs Saints
R17 - WIN vs WCE
R18 - LOSS vs Geel
R19 - WIN vs GWS
R21 - LOSS vs Bris
R22 - LOSS vs Mel - 5 point loss
R23 - LOSS vs Coll - 1 point loss
2 rucks and Jack
R1 - WIN vs Tigers
R2 - WIN vs Dogs
R3 - WIN vs Hawks
R20 - LOSS vs Crows
1 ruck only, no Jack
R6 - LOSS vs Freo
1 ruck + Jack = 53% win ratio (including 3 losses by under 1 goal)
2 rucks + jack = 75% win ratio
1 ruck, no jack = 0% win ratio
1 ruck + Jack in 2023 - 1 draw.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - pinot - 03-25-2023
Yeah but Jack gets beaten up in the ruck loses confidence and gets sent to VFL like late last season.
He is one hell of a competitor in there for sure. But I don't think that should be the issue. I think we need to keep a core 30-35 players and Jack is in there for sure but best 22 will come down to fitness, form and team balance imo.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - kruddler - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 05:37 AM)Lods link Wrote:So essentially Kruds you don't see TDK as part of our future.
That's fair enough, no doubt some good compensation for us, but...
It will be a rather bizarre situation where clubs come with big money for a player who can't make the best 23.
re TDK...
Not necessarily.
Up to this point in time.....
I don't think he can play #1 ruck for 80%-90% of the game like Pitto can.
I don't think he can be as effective up forward as Jack can.
So if we play TDK, we basically take up a spot on the bench for half a game as a result.
Now, he has the potential to dominate games.....but its unrealised potential at this stage.
Pittonet for all his athletic shortcomings by comparison to TDK makes up for it with pure aggression and elite ruckwork.
Its not always the ones he wins either. A few took note how he was able to resist the classic Hawkins push-off from boundary throw-ins that has netted Hawkins numerous shots on goal. I reckon he scored one against TDK last year with that very move!
So for team balance, i think 1 ruck for 80-90% of the game, with short bursts of Jack in the middle allows us to play another midfielder (instead of a 2nd ruck) and that extra midfielder will give us more benefit than that 2nd ruck.
Thats not saying anything against TDK, its simply how i think we can win more games.
We almost got ran over by the cats for that exact reason. Essentially our team changed (Durdin <-> Martin, and Pittonet <-> Hewitt)
We played the extra ruck, instead of a midfielder, and ran out of legs and almost lost. That is exactly what i've been trying to avoid!
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - kruddler - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 08:59 AM)pinot link Wrote:Yeah but Jack gets beaten up in the ruck loses confidence and gets sent to VFL like late last season.Jack missed 1 game, and it was R6.
He is one hell of a competitor in there for sure. But I don't think that should be the issue. I think we need to keep a core 30-35 players and Jack is in there for sure but best 22 will come down to fitness, form and team balance imo.
TEAM BALANCE, is exactly why i favour him over a 2nd pure ruckman.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - DJC - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 08:50 AM)kruddler link Wrote:2 rucks + jack = 75% win ratio
Well, there you go!