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+--- Thread: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood (/thread-3251.html)
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - blue4life - 05-03-2017
I think we are going a bit overboard on Alex Silvagni, 50 games in 7 years with Freo then delisted, and Franklin had 19 touches on the weekend after all.
If one of our key forwards had that much of the ball we'd have him pencilled in for a Brownlow.
Good luck to him and he seems like a solid citizen, but easy on the hype.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - PaulP - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 04:26 AM)blue4life link Wrote:I think we are going a bit overboard on Alex Silvagni, 50 games in 7 years with Freo then delisted, and Franklin had 19 touches on the weekend after all.
If one of our key forwards had that much of the ball we'd have him pencilled in for a Brownlow.
Good luck to him and he seems like a solid citizen, but easy on the hype.
Form, not ancient history, will be your guiding light.
Zac Dawson - nothing more to say.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - Bear - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 04:26 AM)blue4life link Wrote:I think we are going a bit overboard on Alex Silvagni, 50 games in 7 years with Freo then delisted, and Franklin had 19 touches on the weekend after all.
If one of our key forwards had that much of the ball we'd have him pencilled in for a Brownlow.
Good luck to him and he seems like a solid citizen, but easy on the hype.
Franklin had little impact... thought it was a massive effort by Silvagni, who has barely played in the past 2 years.
Reckon Silvagni will play some games this year, wouldn't expect too much beyond that. Clearly a back up to Rowe.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - crashlander - 05-03-2017
We do not tend to change winning teams much, a trait I do not tend to agree with. I am a 'horses for courses' type. However, we rarely change winning combos but for injury.
We will HAVE to make 2 changes: Silvagni's shoulder will not be risked, while Fisher did a hamstring. I don't think he will be risked either.
Jones, Daisy, Kerridge and Cuningham all have put their hands up over the last fortnight, with Buckley not far behind them. The 'Ins' will probably come from that group, although you never can tell.
With Collingwood's team structure, we MAY decide that Alex Silvagni is one tall too many in defence. It might even be a smart move, as Collingwood's small forwards tend to do the bulk of their scoring. However, I don't see it happening.
At the moment we have Docherty and Simpson as small defenders. As they have been doing some moving into the midfield, having another quick defender for a small forward like Elliott or Fasolo might be useful. That puts Daisy at a disadvantage, as he tends to run off guys rather be a tight defender, just like Docherty and Simpson. Buckley could get a go. Or we could move Smedts down to defence, where he has done well in the VFL. He has the pace and that extra bit of height that helps in marking contests.
I know I ALWAYS double guess the match committee and I often think we have not selected guys for certain jobs. Fair enough. One of my functions as a supporter on a site like this. But our selectors tend to make changes only if a guy is seriously out of form for a number of weeks, when we lose badly or due to injury. None of these makes me certain Alex Silvagni will be dropped.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - sydneybluesfan - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 04:26 AM)blue4life link Wrote:I think we are going a bit overboard on Alex Silvagni, 50 games in 7 years with Freo then delisted, and Franklin had 19 touches on the weekend after all.Buddy had 7 of those in the back half of the ground, and only 4 of them inside f50. On the premiere forward of the comp, who has a history of having a party against us, it was a massive win for him and the team that he needed to get up the ground so much to try and find the ball. He only had 11 kicks for the day.
If one of our key forwards had that much of the ball we'd have him pencilled in for a Brownlow.
Good luck to him and he seems like a solid citizen, but easy on the hype.
I think the other thing is the structural impact that it had in allowing Simmo and Doc to get further up the ground and get more of the ball and create opportunities. Simmo had 8 score involvements, and Doc had 6, and both went at over 85% DE. Those are enormous numbers.
Maybe it was just coincidence, but bringing in more experience to the backline I reckon had a huge impact into how we were able to play and our transition out of defence was markedly better than it had been the week before. I think Smedts had a positive impact on this as well. He had to Goal assists and 7 score involvements as well.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - sydneybluesfan - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 05:18 AM)crashlander link Wrote:We do not tend to change winning teams much, a trait I do not tend to agree with. I am a 'horses for courses' type. However, we rarely change winning combos but for injury.
We will HAVE to make 2 changes: Silvagni's shoulder will not be risked, while Fisher did a hamstring. I don't think he will be risked either.
Jones, Daisy, Kerridge and Cuningham all have put their hands up over the last fortnight, with Buckley not far behind them. The 'Ins' will probably come from that group, although you never can tell.
With Collingwood's team structure, we MAY decide that Alex Silvagni is one tall too many in defence. It might even be a smart move, as Collingwood's small forwards tend to do the bulk of their scoring. However, I don't see it happening.
At the moment we have Docherty and Simpson as small defenders. As they have been doing some moving into the midfield, having another quick defender for a small forward like Elliott or Fasolo might be useful. That puts Daisy at a disadvantage, as he tends to run off guys rather be a tight defender, just like Docherty and Simpson. Buckley could get a go. Or we could move Smedts down to defence, where he has done well in the VFL. He has the pace and that extra bit of height that helps in marking contests.
I know I ALWAYS double guess the match committee and I often think we have not selected guys for certain jobs. Fair enough. One of my functions as a supporter on a site like this. But our selectors tend to make changes only if a guy is seriously out of form for a number of weeks, when we lose badly or due to injury. None of these makes me certain Alex Silvagni will be dropped.
I agree with all that.
Macreadie may also come straight back in to play the small defender role this week and replace Fisher. He was 'managed' - not dropped - so it will be interesting to see which way they go with him.
I think Smedts needs a good run at it as he could be a good player for us. He has a more mature body and can run all day, and does look dangerous when he gets the ball forward of centre. He looks like a guy still trying to find his place and best spot in our setup. I would persist with him as a wing/hff for a few weeks and then assess where he is at.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - BlueDamon - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 04:19 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I don't agree with the idea that he is a Buddy specialist and therefore should not get another gig until a similar player is named for the oppo. If he can go a good job on the most athletic and most damaging forward in the comp, why can't he do an even better job on lesser forwards ? Are any of his attributes ill suited to such a task ? Don't tell me, it's depriving the kiddies of games.
And I'm not sure Daisy is exclusively a back line player - he tends to play where needed, doing as you say, a similar thing to Alex.
I think both can play in the same team no probs, but not in the same back line.
Just my devalued 2 bob's worth.
Didn't mean I agreed with the sentiment that he is only a 'Buddy specialist' and I'm very much in two minds about the 'depriving the kids' concept, especially the impact he had last week. My point is more that, if we are to have a mature leader in the backline (and I acknowledge that Daisy can play elsewhere as, perhaps, can Alex), who should we prefer? I'm leaning towards Alex, because of his example of ruthlessness and the comments from Marchbank as to his value.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - PaulP - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 05:48 AM)BlueDamon link Wrote:Didn't mean I agreed with the sentiment that he is only a 'Buddy specialist' and I'm very much in two minds about the 'depriving the kids' concept, especially the impact he had last week. My point is more that, if we are to have a mature leader in the backline (and I acknowledge that Daisy can play elsewhere as, perhaps, can Alex), who should we prefer? I'm leaning towards Alex, because of his example of ruthlessness and the comments from Marchbank as to his value.
BD, thanks for the clarification, but I got your position the first time round, which I did not express very well in my previous post. My bad.
If a choice must exist between the two, then you would have to say based on form and match day effectiveness, Alex would have to get the nod. So I definitely agree with you.
Whether he keeps getting games and keeps showing good form only time will tell. But if both these things happen then it's safe to say that we have both a very good player and a new cult hero on our hands. No bad thing in my book.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - blue4life - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 05:48 AM)BlueDamon link Wrote:Didn't mean I agreed with the sentiment that he is only a 'Buddy specialist' and I'm very much in two minds about the 'depriving the kids' concept, especially the impact he had last week. My point is more that, if we are to have a mature leader in the backline (and I acknowledge that Daisy can play elsewhere as, perhaps, can Alex), who should we prefer? I'm leaning towards Alex, because of his example of ruthlessness and the comments from Marchbank as to his value.
I think we can play both if their form warrants it.
Youth policies are fine but we shouldn't be in a breakneck hurry, if any kid is good enough he'll force his way into the team.
It would be a miracle if all of the kids currently in and around our senior team made the grade, we need to realise that it's extremely unlikely to happen and accept that some will fall by the wayside.
Re: 2017 Rd 7: pre game protestations Carlton vs Collingwood - Thryleon - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 04:19 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I don't agree with the idea that he is a Buddy specialist and therefore should not get another gig until a similar player is named for the oppo. If he can go a good job on the most athletic and most damaging forward in the comp, why can't he do an even better job on lesser forwards ? Are any of his attributes ill suited to such a task ? Don't tell me, it's depriving the kiddies of games.
And I'm not sure Daisy is exclusively a back line player - he tends to play where needed, doing as you say, a similar thing to Alex.
I think both can play in the same team no probs, but not in the same back line.
Just my devalued 2 bob's worth.
I was the one suggested that Alex might get dropped not because of what he can do or cant do, but simply for team balance which is where the initial post came from.
I look at our defense, and although he performed really well, I thought he got a lot of help from our mids who slowed Sydney's forward thrusts, and our other defenders which gave him very little space to work with resulting in Buddy really going up the ground to get posessions. Not to mention between Plowman, Marchbank (both can mind talls and smalls) Rowe, White (better on your medium, and talls) and Macreadie might come back as he looked sore, but not injured 2 weeks ago and Weitering who is potentially our best key defender (who is currently moonlighting as a forward IMHO) may see him surplus to requirements.
At the end of the day, its a great headache to have, and likewise, I dont think its highly likely he'll miss, but this is my thinking behind Alex missing if he does.
No one would blame the club if that occurred either.