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+--- Thread: Russian Ukraine War (/thread-5823.html)
Re: Russian Ukraine War - madbluboy - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:03 AM)DJC link Wrote:Unless the provision of state of the art MBTs gives Ukraine too great an advantage and Russia backs down.
Without going into too much detail, Soviet/Russian tanks used by both sides are line of sight. The Leopards, Challengers and Abrams are better armoured and have “over the horizon” offensive ability and can destroy enemy armour that’s out of sight.
In the Iraq war, a Challenger 1 destroyed a T-72 with one round at a distance of 4,700m. The Challenger 2, as gifted to Ukraine, is more lethal than its predecessor.
There is a report of a Ukrainian T-64BV destroying a Russian tank at a range of 10,600m but that was with 20 rounds of indirect fire.
Russia isn't backing down. They will nuke before they lose.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - LP - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:08 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:Russia isn't backing down. They will nuke before they lose.Russia and Russian's pride themselves on being strategic managers, that is why chess is so popular in the soviet block.
If Russia is pressed it will realise the way to end this current battle is to concede enabling them to live to fight another day, which they can do by knocking over the King! If the King is stupid enough to think his followers naivé then he'll be sacrificed to end the conflict.
I greatly doubt anybody in modern politics, with even a miniscule outlook beyond the next 5 minutes or so, would be stupid enough to be the first to press the nuclear button, doing so is a license to let your enemies make you the next Japan! The bigger issue is that a nuclear weapon might fall into the hands of a terrorist as opposed to a state, but even so a terrorist isn't going to get their hands on multiple warheads and be able to store and maintain them as viable for any length of time. The half-life of the fissile material guarantees a device becomes redundant within a few years, at which time they are more dirty bomb than destructive. It's called critical mass for a reason, and it is very critical to be at just the right mass to detonate efficiently, just a few tens of grams too much or two little and the yield falls massively.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - madbluboy - 01-27-2023
Then why aren't we obliterating them?
Re: Russian Ukraine War - LP - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:23 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:Then why aren't we obliterating them?Because most of the people being forced to fight, and by far the biggest allocation of victims of any war, are the innocent!
There are just as many innocent on one side as the other.
There are lessons to be learned from Korea, Vietnam, etc., etc., and the world doesn't want to create a new version of the never ending and unwinnable conflict.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - madbluboy - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:24 AM)LP link Wrote:Because most of the people being forced to fight, and by far the biggest allocation of victims of any war, are the innocent!
There are just as many innocent on one side as the other.
Why isn't anyone helping the Ukraine defend their own country?
Re: Russian Ukraine War - LP - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:27 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:Why isn't anyone helping the Ukraine defend their own country?They are but it's not going to be a slaughter, most nations involved in supporting Ukraine have Domestic Laws and Policies that govern how they can become engaged, if a country's military or politicians ignore those rules they would become war criminals in their own home.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - madbluboy - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:30 AM)LP link Wrote:They are but it's not going to be a slaughter, most nations involved in supporting Ukraine have Domestic Laws and Policies that govern how they can become engaged, if a country's military or politicians ignore those rules they would become war criminals in their own home.
It's weird when NATO bombed Belgrade they didn't seem to care about civilians. Wonder what the difference was?
Re: Russian Ukraine War - Lods - 01-27-2023
I think it's all totally unpredictable and just a mistake or deliberate action away from a debacle.
The next Russian 'wave' won't be based on the theory they can just waltz in and take Kiev.
It will be a more considered approach, based on their previous experience, and that might mean an initial significant 'softening' up period before engaging ground forces in large numbers.
For the Ukranian's part...they'd love to see the West involved in a direct 'boots on the ground' support. They won't care about it turning into a wider conflict. They would see that as to their advantage. Their actions won't be designed with keeping the West out of it...the opposite will be in their thoughts.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - DJC - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:05 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Would that include the Aboriginal flag?
Interesting question MBB. Most of us don't consider the Aboriginal flag to be a national flag but, to be consistent, all flags should be banned, particularly the boxing kangaroo.
Some flags that no longer represent countries, or never did, are particularly offensive and/or are displayed to foment trouble.
Re: Russian Ukraine War - DJC - 01-27-2023
(01-27-2023, 01:08 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Russia isn't backing down. They will nuke before they lose.
Not going to happen. For a start, what would be the target(s), the country Putin's trying to annexe? His own people would suffer almost as much as the Ukrainians.
Putin has threatened nuclear retaliation for western assistance of Ukraine and the west has stared him down.