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+--- Thread: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. (/thread-5472.html)
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - Lods - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 07:29 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I dont understand how these people are nutters, and the BLM rioters were vindicated.
I'm talking about the extreme points of view in both types of demonstrations.
There are always those who attach themselves to these protests just to cause trouble and strife.
Not all protesters are the same, with the same convictions to the cause.
Some are just nutters.
The concern in this situation are that 'all protesters' at that rally are then grouped as being of a like mind (and action).
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - LP - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 07:58 AM)Lods date Wrote:The concern in this situation are that 'all protesters' at that rally are then grouped as being of a like mind (and action).I don't think anybody has asserted that, it is a generalisation of the reader not the author, it's no different to not everyone who boos Goodes being racist.
It is usually those who generalise that have some barrow to push, and I suspect the extremists will assert everyone standing around them is a supporter, but nothing is further from the truth because in fact the extremists hide in the populous they are not part of it!
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - Fat Tony - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 07:46 AM)Mav link Wrote:Let's put this simply: the Nazis were far right and socialists are on the left, and never the twain shall meet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - DJC - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 01:26 AM)spf link Wrote:The Nazi's were the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Many people at that time would have described themselves as socialists - the nationalist variety.
Where is there ANY evidence of this? You are borderline mad. If you are wondering who the 'nutters' are LP - take a look in the mirror.
Quote:The right needs to stop falsely claiming that the Nazis were socialists
...
Instead of controlling the means of production or redistributing wealth to build a utopian society, the Nazis focused on safeguarding a social and racial hierarchy. They promised solidarity for members of the Volksgemeinschaft (“racial community”) even as they denied rights to those outside the charmed circle.
Additionally, while the Nazis tried to appeal to voters across the spectrum, the party’s founders and initial base were small-business men and artisans, not the industrial proletariat of Marxist lore. Their first notable electoral successes were in small towns and Protestant rural areas in present-day Thuringia and Saxony, among voters suspicious of cosmopolitan, secular cities who associated both “socialism” and “capitalism” with Jews and foreigners.
Read more here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/
Anyone who claims that Nazis were socialists needs to learn the basics of European 20th century history paying particular attention to the role of the Social Democratic Party as the only German political party that consistently resisted Nazism.
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - Mav - 11-24-2021
One of the problems is that rightwingers happily lump socialism in with communism. If I were to use this sort of approach, I'd say conservatives are fascists. Democratic socialists operate within the electoral system. On the other hand, the Republicans in the US have chosen to fall in behind an anti-democratic autocrat who wants to become a dictator in an essentially 1 party nation.
The ALP is hardly a totalitarian party, but one of its factions is known as the Socialist Left. It hasn't even seized control of the ALP let alone the country.
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - Lods - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 11:01 AM)LP link Wrote:I don't think anybody has asserted that, it is a generalisation of the reader not the author, it's no different to not everyone who boos Goodes being racist.
I wasn't necessarily speaking of the comments on this forum...but the idea that all anti vaxxers are of a like or similar cut is something that's being expressed by some folks in the community.
Perhaps my comment would have been better put like this...
The concern in this situation are that 'all protesters' at that rally are then grouped 'by some' as being of a like mind (and action).
It was a generalisation by omission on my part.
But that's the problem.
When writing only we know our own intent.
If we leave something unclear, or focus too much on one aspect, it opens it up to the interpretation of the listener or reader.
Just what is the makeup of pandemic protesters?
After some posts regarding the strong American influence I thought I'd have a look at some of the coverage and pay a bit more attention. I had a look at several news reports.
Now it's very much dependent on what vision the TV channels chose to 'shoot and show' so it's really just a snapshot, but a couple of things stood out.
Quite a few of the 'fascists' were carrying anti fascist posters so obviously they don't regard themselves as right wing extremists
A perhaps disturbing element down the track, and perhaps more concerning than any American flag, was the number of Red Ensigns. It appears this is the 'flag of the month' for some right thinking folk. So there is no doubt there is that element to the protesters
I saw two American flags but one was tied to the same pole as an Australian flag.
But there were also the flags of
Poland
Greece
Italy
Croatia
UK
Cyprus
The Aboriginal flag
The Eureka flag
...and a boxing Kangaroo
Good luck working that out
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - tonyo - 11-24-2021
(11-24-2021, 08:35 PM)Lods link Wrote:I saw two American flags but one was tied to the same pole as an Australian flag.The protesters are often quoted as saying 'the majority of people believe this, or don't want that.........'
But there were also the flags of
Poland
Greece
Italy
Croatia
UK
Cyprus
The Aboriginal flag
The Eureka flag
...and a boxing Kangaroo
Good luck working that out
Even when there are 'many thousands' in the marches, it still represents a significant minority of the whole population. By having a widespread collection of symbols that everyone can recognise, it attempts to persuade the rest of us that their movement does represent a far larger proportion of society. In reality, the only link to most of these symbols is that bearer happened to have one in the drawer at home, or popped down to Carroll & Richardson to buy one.
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - Thryleon - 11-25-2021
(11-24-2021, 12:52 PM)Fat Tony link Wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
I love this.
The extremes behave the same.
So much so I believe they are over compensating for themselves and their unwavering belief in their political ideology. They cannot accept that it has flaws, ergo are militant in the application and questioning of their rules.
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - spf - 11-25-2021
(11-24-2021, 07:46 AM)Mav link Wrote:Surely you're joking ...
From Wikipedia:
There was never anything socialist about the Nazi Party: it was just a bait-and-switch tactic. The communists, socialists, and unions were the opposition Hitler was seeking to outmanoeuvre. It's amazing that such an obvious con is still working today. Far right policitians over in the US like Marjorie Taylor Greene are still claiming the Nazis were socialists even as we speak.
Let's put this simply: the Nazis were far right and socialists are on the left, and never the twain shall meet.
HAHAHAHAHA - just rubbish and YOU KNOW IT. Rewrite history all you want - it happened. Ordinary people were complicit and many did identify as socialists - do not try to paint over this.
Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. - LP - 11-25-2021
(11-25-2021, 03:13 AM)spf date Wrote:HAHAHAHAHA - just rubbish and YOU KNOW IT. Rewrite history all you want - it happened. Ordinary people were complicit and many did identify as socialists - do not try to paint over this.I suspect this is fundamentally a case of semantic ambiguity, polysemy or lexical ambiguity. I do not speak the languages of the time, critics would have to be very careful in the translation, so as such historians might revert to descriptions of behaviour over issuing a label.
It may be very wrong to assume that the meaning of the words remains consistent across all contexts and era's, a common topic of debate in philosophical circles. If I called you a gay chap in the 1930s it means something very different to that same label now! If I called you a nationalist in Appalachia, it means something very different to the same label in Tibet!
Also, should we put much weight on any self-designation, especially given such designations might be relative to other phenomenon current at the time?