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+--- Thread: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne (/thread-5333.html)
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - townsendcalling - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 12:16 PM)31Tommys_barber link Wrote:Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently.
Slight correction Tommy, Tarrant didn’t play.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - madbluboy - 07-24-2021
Having McKay wouldn't have stopped North streaming through the middle countless times under no pressure.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - laj - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 10:43 PM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...It is something that pervades in the club. Unless you get rid of 40 players and most of everyone else it's gets ingrained and "handed down". It's can get entrenched into a club.
Took the likes of Richmond 30 odd years to rid themselves of it, sacking how many coaches in the process. Even the great Allan Jeans couldn't do anything with that club and gave that one up.pretty quick. Neither could Robert Walls. If a culture is poor a coach can be helpless.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - Baggers - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 10:43 PM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - JonDorotich - 07-24-2021
Like many others I wasn’t surprised at what we saw yesterday and the two most important that need to be fully explored by the current review are list management and strength and conditioning.
We entered the year with no third ruck, no key defence backups (we’ve actually been very very lucky here) and no back capable of playing on pacy small forwards. We’ve also invested an extraordinary amount of the salary cap in very few, which will get worse when we sign Walsh.
Our strength and conditioning is so far off the pace it’s not funny, and if Teague is to be sacked it should be for continually expressing faith in our “high performance” strength and conditioning team - surely Teague understands that it’s him or the fitness team that is going to go??? If not, that’s a bigger concern.
We can’t accept the lack of durability across our playing group over the past 2-3 years and we’ve got some structural issues to balance player payments across our list which means that our bottom 5-6 are not afl standard every time our injury list hits 5 or more.
Adding to all of the above, we’ll never get anywhere running out with the likes of all Casboult, Setterfield, Murphy, Plowman, Newnes, Newman, E Curnow, McDonald - all of them just aren’t up to it.
Of players with currency I’d be moving on McGovern (mistake) & SPS during the trade period.
A bit to do.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - keogh - 07-24-2021
Normally I’m on the other site but reading this thread some of the comments make me laugh
The injury excuse
We have 12 guys out
Casboult done and dusted
Boyd Mirkov McDonald rookies recycled players
McGovern has hardly touched it in 3 years anyway
I could go on
Essendon have more out yet there probably going to play finals
Whoever said that injury is an excuse for yesterday’s shameful effort has their hand on it
Our recruiting is crap
Our midfield recruiting over the last 6 years has been crap many on big money giving up draft picks
It’s Walsh Cripps then who else
I new we were in big trouble when they gave up the farm for McGovern and Setterfield when the club had its worse year on record in 2018
Stephen Silvangi screwed this rebuild up big time
I predicted that this year we would be crap and once again a new List Manager Nick Austin decides to pay Zac Williams 4.8 million over 6 years to solve our midfield speed woes
The guy has played 8 years as as unaccountable half back
How screwing stupid is it to give a guy such a massive contract to do a job he clearly is not capable of doing
The club is now saddled with paying a guy huge money for 6 years to play on nobody at HB
Ditto Jack Martin plays as a permanent HF does pretty much screw all
The club overrated him as well
5 years on about 3.5 million
This is a guy who has achieved virtually nothing his whole career
Other clubs simply wouldn’t do this
Why would a club give up a pick 8 for a guy who can play only one position
Ironically HB and pay him over 3 million for 5 years. At least Saad is fit but he is actually a limited player
Why would you give up pick 30 for a spud like Fogarty
Whilst all this is going on Murphy is handed games to get to 300 like he is entitled to get there and produces crap footy
Meanwhile Carroll Honey Ramsay can’t get a game
Honey and Ramsay have played one game between them in 2 years
That’s a joke
What i am saying is nothing has changed in 20 years
The club still lives in the past
It hugely overrates some
It says screw the others
How does that produce a team environment
How can a guy like SPS be allowed to play 93 games
It doesn’t get how to be successful in 2021
The board needs to go
The board is ultimately responsible for setting the tone
I’ve said this on the other website for years
This external review is another smoke screen
Until that happens nothing will change
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - Gointocarlton - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 11:14 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.Weiters was sold out by his mates up the field. Weiters, SOS, Sefta combined couldn't have stopped that ball the way it streamed through the middle. I didn't watch most of the second half but I heard Teague say in his presser he moved him fwd. We go from hunter to hunted and panic far too easily.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - PaulP - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 11:14 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
I think the whole team looked off yesterday, and you'd have to wonder why. First time this year. I'm not going to vote in the Jim Park this week because I don't know who to vote for. A spare parts forward line, a spare parts / junior ruck brigade, Walsh ordinary when he never is etc. Just a bad day all round and one that should be forgotten and we move on to next week. All teams have shockers during the season.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - Gointocarlton - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 01:34 PM)kruddler link Wrote:The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.Our injury List
You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!
FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?
Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.
Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!
The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.
Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!
I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.
Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.
Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne - kruddler - 07-24-2021
(07-24-2021, 10:43 PM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
Firstly, 95% of the people knew we would lose yesterday? BS. Everyone was arguing against me for suggesting it was even possible.
Secondly, correlation does not equal causation. You look at the end result - poor performance - and assume the same reason for it. That is your problem and the problem from the club as a whole over the past 2 decades.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach
etc.
How about looking at it this way....
Poor performance under Brittain = Injuries
Poor performance under Pagan = Lost the players
Poor performance under Ratten = Injuries
Poor performance under Malthouse = fractured club
Poor performance under Bolton = lost the players
Poor performance under Teague = Injuries.
One thing Teague has been able to do is become competitive in our on-field performances. When he first took over, he had a youngish, inexperienced list with some aging stars. Now those kids are starting to come good and we can't field a side. It was only our competitiveness that has allowed us to put in an acceptable behaviour the last couple weeks. To be fair, this result should've occurred 3 weeks ago.
What is being said now is the same thing that was being said at the halfway point. Then, as predicted, we started playing some easier opposition and had players available and the wins 'miraculously' came. Now we have been hit by more injuries (and to key personnel) and our performances start to struggle again.
Its not rocket science guys.