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+--- Thread: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. (/thread-4048.html)
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - flyboy77 - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 10:13 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:How is it we compare Mark LeCras and Jack Silvagni?......one is a small forward and the other plays mainly as a 3rd tall forward..
LeCras is a clever small to mid forward(182cm) who was a great kick for goal and had some tricks, also was very good over head for his size...
Jack is a 3rd tall forward around the McGovern size who has been tried as a tall onballer and a half back flanker..
IMO two different players, Jack is honest, tries hard but now McGovern has arrived is out of a job..
Because he is the son of a legendary player and now list manager he will get extra opportunities to find a position but has his work cut out unless
we have massive injuries. Setterfield is the new tall mid and we have half back flankers on tap now with Docherty, Williamson and Newman back/onboard.
Jack is jack of all trades but master of none unfortunately....he will become a delist candidate down the track given we are weeding out the spuds and will have less options
to chop if things go to plan, However the rookie list will probably be his saviour as I dont see his father or the club sending him on his way in a undignified manner...
A very fair summation EB, up to young Jack to find his spot (and earn it) - or be chopped....
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - jeza - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 10:13 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:How is it we compare Mark LeCras and Jack Silvagni?......one is a small forward and the other plays mainly as a 3rd tall forward..
LeCras is a clever small to mid forward(182cm) who was a great kick for goal and had some tricks, also was very good over head for his size...
Jack is a 3rd tall forward around the McGovern size who has been tried as a tall onballer and a half back flanker..
IMO two different players, Jack is honest, tries hard but now McGovern has arrived is out of a job..
Because he is the son of a legendary player and now list manager he will get extra opportunities to find a position but has his work cut out unless
we have massive injuries. Setterfield is the new tall mid and we have half back flankers on tap now with Docherty, Williamson and Newman back/onboard.
Jack is jack of all trades but master of none unfortunately....he will become a delist candidate down the track given we are weeding out the spuds and will have less options
to chop if things go to plan, However the rookie list will probably be his saviour as I dont see his father or the club sending him on his way in a undignified manner...
Really? Eddie Betts is a small forward. Lecras is a lead up player, not overly quick with good hands and a good mark for his side. Plays taller than his cm.
You make good points about McGovern's arrival - last year Jack showed he is probably a HFF at the moment and that's it. He didn't do well in any of the other positions he was tried in and as we know the whole forward line struggled from lack of service.
The year before that was an outstanding year for a 19 year old forward pocket.
We won't know until he's 23 and filled out. His dad did start off built like a rake and he was massive by the end.
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - LP - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 10:58 AM)jeza link Wrote:Lecras is a lead up player, not overly quick with good hands and a good mark for his side. Plays taller than his cm.
That's a fair summation, but relative to SoJ LeCras is lightning. I think you could clone LeCras and strap them together three legged race style and they would still have young SoJ covered.
But I hope this rumoured sprint training does the job, because I fear SoJ's first class football brain and unquestionable work ethic just won't be enough!
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - JonHenry - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 02:02 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:IT supports my point, but both of them are not walk up starts at AFL level at this stage (at least as far as I was concerned).
The blokes I was talking about are the sort that could realistically expect to get a game for any club in the AFL.
It was meant to support your point.
None of Lang, Phillips or Casboult are likely to get a game with any other side.
Kennedy played 16 games in the giants midfield 2 years ago.
Williamson played almost a full year as our youngest listed player
They’re both easily on that list
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - flyboy77 - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 11:20 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:It was meant to support your point.
None of Lang, Phillips or Casboult are likely to get a game with any other side.
Kennedy played 16 games in the giants midfield 2 years ago.
Williamson played almost a full year as our youngest listed player
They’re both easily on that list
Don't under estimate Lang JH but it's 2019 or nothin for him....
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - DJC - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 10:13 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:How is it we compare Mark LeCras and Jack Silvagni?......one is a small forward and the other plays mainly as a 3rd tall forward..
LeCras is a clever small to mid forward(182cm) who was a great kick for goal and had some tricks, also was very good over head for his size...
Jack is a 3rd tall forward around the McGovern size who has been tried as a tall onballer and a half back flanker..
IMO two different players, Jack is honest, tries hard but now McGovern has arrived is out of a job..
Because he is the son of a legendary player and now list manager he will get extra opportunities to find a position but has his work cut out unless
we have massive injuries. Setterfield is the new tall mid and we have half back flankers on tap now with Docherty, Williamson and Newman back/onboard.
Jack is jack of all trades but master of none unfortunately....he will become a delist candidate down the track given we are weeding out the spuds and will have less options
to chop if things go to plan, However the rookie list will probably be his saviour as I dont see his father or the club sending him on his way in a undignified manner...
You can't be talking about SOJ because he simply doesn't play as a tall forward of any description. He spent a lot of 2018 in defence and in the midfield but, when he was in the forward line, his role is more of a small to medium forward. Yes, he does take the odd contested mark but his strengths as a forward are more about getting into space and judging the fall of the ball.
I reckon Jeza's comparison with Le Cras is a worthwhile exercise and it's interesting to compare their stats at the same age; SOJ just pips Le Cras
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - ElwoodBlues1 - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 11:58 AM)DJC link Wrote:You can't be talking about SOJ because he simply doesn't play as a tall forward of any description. He spent a lot of 2018 in defence and in the midfield but, when he was in the forward line, his role is more of a small to medium forward. Yes, he does take the odd contested mark but his strengths as a forward are more about getting into space and judging the fall of the ball.
I reckon Jeza's comparison with Le Cras is a worthwhile exercise and it's interesting to compare their stats at the same age; SOJ just pips Le Cras
DJ.....Lecras 182cm/82kg...Jack 191cm/89kg...............I'm getting old but my maths is still ok
Jack IMO is a 3rd tall forward and has no resemblance to a small forward...Jack is actually 1cm taller than McGovern, if he plays as a small forward he would be the slowest small forward on this planet or any other planet.
Alex Fasalo is your Mark Lecras comparison player 181cm/84kg......good overhead, can snap/crumb a goal and leads well...plays the same way IMO.....
Dont get me wrong...I like Jack, think he has handled himself well and has a fair weight of expectation to carry around which is a tough gig for a young kid...but he wasnt pick 53 for nothing.....his TAC form was reasonable without being fantastic and he has been handy at senior level at times but as the list improves and we get some better talented kids in the team he will struggle to keep a place as he has his limitations.
Charlie, McGovern, Harry, Fazzy boy.........dont see room for Jack except as backup.....
It shows the list is improving which is a good sign but there has to be some casualties and Jack is lucky he will get more opportunities than most but unless he improves his skills, pace and can find a role he can make his own I cant see him in the senior team unless we get another massive injury list in 2019...ditto for his mate Cuningham....
If you asked most on this forum to pick a best 22 I think you would find most couldnt find a spot for Jack......?
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - DJC - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 12:25 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:DJ.....Lecras 182cm/82kg...Jack 191cm/89kg...............I'm getting old but my maths is still ok
Jack is actually 1cm taller than McGovern, if he plays as a small forward he would be the slowest small forward on this planet or any other planet.
Alex Fasalo is your Mark Lecras comparison player 181cm/84kg......good overhead, can snap/crumb a goal and leads well...plays the same way IMO.....
Dont get me wrong...I like Jack, think he has handled himself well and has a fair weight of expectation to carry around which is a tough gig for a young kid...but he wasnt pick 53 for nothing.....his TAC form was reasonable without being fantastic and he has been handy at senior level at times but as the list improves and we get some better talented kids in the team he will struggle to keep a place as he has his limitations.
Charlie, McGovern, Harry, Fazzy boy.........dont see room for Jack except as backup.....
It shows the list is improving which is a good sign but there has to be some casualties and Jack is lucky he will get more opportunities than most but unless he improves his skills, pace and can find a role he can make his own I cant see him in the senior team unless we get another massive injury list in 2019...ditto for his mate Cuningham....
If you asked most on this forum to pick a best 22 I think you would find most couldnt find a spot for Jack......?
I know that Jack and McGovern are around the same size but they don't play the same way. McGovern plays like a genuine tall and Jack is an opportunist ... like LeCras, but with extra size.
I agree that he will struggle to get a game unless he can settle into a role that he can do better than anyone else. His versatility is a strength but he has to find a way to compensate for his lack of pace and make sure that his kicking for goal is spot on.
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - jeza - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 12:25 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:DJ.....Lecras 182cm/82kg...Jack 191cm/89kg...............I'm getting old but my maths is still ok
Jack is actually 1cm taller than McGovern, if he plays as a small forward he would be the slowest small forward on this planet or any other planet.
Alex Fasalo is your Mark Lecras comparison player 181cm/84kg......good overhead, can snap/crumb a goal and leads well...plays the same way IMO.....
Dont get me wrong...I like Jack, think he has handled himself well and has a fair weight of expectation to carry around which is a tough gig for a young kid...but he wasnt pick 53 for nothing.....his TAC form was reasonable without being fantastic and he has been handy at senior level at times but as the list improves and we get some better talented kids in the team he will struggle to keep a place as he has his limitations.
Charlie, McGovern, Harry, Fazzy boy.........dont see room for Jack except as backup.....
It shows the list is improving which is a good sign but there has to be some casualties and Jack is lucky he will get more opportunities than most but unless he improves his skills, pace and can find a role he can make his own I cant see him in the senior team unless we get another massive injury list in 2019...ditto for his mate Cuningham....
If you asked most on this forum to pick a best 22 I think you would find most couldnt find a spot for Jack......?
I agree - I wouldn't have Jack in my best 22 at the minute. His form was sketchy last year. Uncharacteristic fumbles and seemed to second-guess himself a fair bit. 20 years old though so drawing conclusions one way or another is madness.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Lecras - I did point out quite early on Jack was taller but plays in a similar style. Lecras doesn't really play a small crumbing forward role like an Eddie / Garlett if you ask me. I mean - he bears no resemblance to that type of player at all - but as I say - we'll agree to disagree.
Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. - Professer E - 11-01-2018
AFL aren't banking on it going by the fixture.