+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Social Club (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Blah-Blah Bar (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (/thread-2312.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Thryleon - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 12:21 AM)LP link Wrote:Agreed about the reporting, both sides are going down the "Alternative Fact" route and Joe Average has very little way to verify the facts.
On the VISA issue, fair enough in regards to US citizens Thry, but I wasn't referring to US nationals I'm referring to Australian's who have established business dealings in the US and can apparently no longer get a VISA to visit there due to extended holidays they took last year traveling through various blacklisted countries. Some of them were volunteering on their holidays as part of humanitarian visits with MSF!
If that is the case, then that means they are just going to have to negotiate what they do and how they do it.
Lets not pretend this is a game changer either. Video conferencing, proxy negotiations, and various other methods of doing business can and will be exploited in these scenarios.
Either way, the reporting on the Trump administration makes the HUN's EFC drugs saga reporting look balanced which is a reason in itself to be skeptical of all we are being fed by the media.
Is it because the people who run governments cannot sway Trump in the same way that they used to with other leaders??
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - flyboy77 - 01-31-2017
(01-30-2017, 11:58 PM)LP link Wrote:Just a quick question Flyboy.
Under the current Trump regime and potentially coming from a pro-Trump source, the alleged source Micah Zenko apparently defends Trump's security policy and is the author of a book titled Red: How to Win by "Thinking" like the Enemy(Some think it's basically "An Eye for an Eye" manifesto!), how do we know if this is a "Real" or "Alternative" fact?
I cannot say I've read Micah's book, and I'm also not sure if the assertions or commentary that he is pro-Trump are accurate, but there is enough of that subject matter out there to raise the question!
Who do we trust in this debate, liars who conceal their lies, or liars who is blatant about lying?
The world is now in an awful situation, public opinion and policy is dominated by racists, capitalists and racist capitalists. Both sides of the debate are finger pointing f-knuckles, here and abroad!
The same question could be asked of any piece of media, under any political regime.....
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - sandsmere - 01-31-2017
(01-30-2017, 11:55 PM)Lods link Wrote:It's a circus (as we thought it would be) and he's the ringmaster
He made some promises during the election campaign and these first couple of weeks are about him showing he can keep them but...
He promised to build a wall that will now resemble a flyscreen.
Mexico will pay...but now indirectly :
In fact what will happen if he slaps a tax on Mexican products is that folk will buy American instead, which is his aim
He promised to ban immigration from Muslim dominated countries until it could be properly vetted....what we get is a ban from selected countries for a period of 90-120 days.
That will be over in a blink, but a promise kept.
He's kept his promises in a half-hearted fashion. He can say he kept them... but he's got the world in a tizz.
Problem is it's not the world that counts and as criticism mounts overseas he expands his own base locally as americans become defensive about that criticism...protesters we see in the streets aren't Trump supporters anyway so they're protesting to the converted.
He's a Chaos Lord and he's being fed exactly what he wants at the moment.
The strange thing is that the group of people who will be effective in stopping him going on his merry way are the Republican lawmakers, if they have the will...and that's where it sits at the moment.
Trump has already kept more promises than Tony Abbott did during his entire period as PM. 8) 8)
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Thryleon - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 12:40 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:The same question could be asked of any piece of media, under any political regime.....
of late, I think the media has become less balanced than it used to be.
We used to get a story and then were told tidbits without being fed an opinion.
Now we get opinion pieces with tidbits of a story in order to sway our opinion, and it always goes to the emotive point of the story in order to garner the appropriate reaction from the appropriate people.
I don't like it. I haven't seen propaganda like this in my lifetime previously, and I think its going to get worse and rather than focus on the topics, I think its best that people start analysing the media, their sources, and what the goals are.
Currently, the destabilisation of President Trump's regime is all I have seen for the last 6 months. None of it based on actual facts, but more to do with WHO he is. That in itself is cause for concern, and it worries me that I see no one talking about that aspect of things.
I want to see analytics, but alas, I fear we will never get the chance because I tried to raise this point on facebook and was quickly howelled down by people who didnt see what I was actually trying to say.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - DJC - 01-31-2017
(01-30-2017, 11:55 PM)Lods link Wrote:The strange thing is that the group of people who will be effective in stopping him going on his merry way are the Republican lawmakers, if they have the will...and that's where it sits at the moment.
I reckon the people who will stop him are the lawyers and judges. Americans won't abide unconstitutional actions by either side.
As one commentator put it, Trump had better start use grown up lawyers to vet his executive orders.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 12:54 AM)sandsmere link Wrote:Trump has already kept more promises than Tony Abbott did during his entire period as PM. 8) 8)
And you see that as a positive!
Trump was voted in by people who think he cares about them, will get them jobs, while he replaces locals with low cost foreigners in his hotels! He may deport those workers and replace them with locals, but the devil is in the detail, jobs at what wage and with what lifestyle? Lods makes points that are very valid.
Trump also has an intellectual support base, they mostly see him as the lesser of two evils because he is openly blatant about lying! But they are yet to see the detail as well.
Some support Trump because they unconditionally support Wikileaks, they point to the Clinton's history. They seem to be accepting of any web facts without supporting evidence, that is just as weak on either side of the argument, it's cherry picking, and they accuse each other of cherry picking constantly. But even so, it's hard to argue Trump is a better option, just because he is blatantly different justifies nothing!
In any case, he isn't really delivering on those promises, as Lods points out. It seems it is just another smokescreen designed to placate the gullible! The republican's are patting the American and Global public on the head Benny Hill style!
Those foreign investments he holds, Russia, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, what are those shares worth today. Trump has always claimed he is a billionaire, a fact questioned by some other billionaires, perhaps he has found the way to make it so!
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 01-31-2017
Most of what Trump does and says publicly is pure window dressing. If you want to follow his main game keep an eye on what Rex Tillerson is up to.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 02:07 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Most of what Trump does and says publicly is pure window dressing. If you want to follow his main game keep an eye on what Rex Tillerson is up to.
Very cynical Cookie2, not everybody is about the money! :
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 02:08 AM)LP link Wrote:Very cynical Cookie2, not everybody is about the money! :
That's not specifically what I had in mind.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - ElwoodBlues1 - 01-31-2017
Trump's business nous is overrated, his father made all the money while his son has lost most of what he has invested in failed business ventures.
Trump will force inflation up in the USA and affect the world economy, his lack of understanding could easily produce another GFC if he is allowed to do what he likes.