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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon (/thread-6534.html)
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 06:29 AM)crashlander link Wrote:Something you also see in the 2's. Unfortunately Mirkov doesn't have the same footy IQ and doesn't get the ball like de Koning does, but he gets shepherded out all the time.Mirkov allows smaller lighter players to push him away from the ball, he needs to stand his ground better and get on the angry pills and throw his weight around. Height is a great asset some really tall players just rely on too much and never expand their game.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - Lods - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 06:45 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Mirkov allows smaller lighter players to push him away from the ball, he needs to stand his ground better and get on the angry pills and throw his weight around. Height is a great asset some really tall players just rely on too much and never expand their game.
I noticed on the weekend, at centre bounces, his focus was on the opposition ruckman and not the ball.
Maybe he was looking to be more physical.
Not sure it worked too well though.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - Thryleon - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 05:54 AM)DJC link Wrote:I just replayed the first quarter and took note of the ruck contests.
Goldstein: 17 ruck contests, 2 hitouts, 0 HTA, 3 clearances
De Koning: 10 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA, 1 clean possession, 1 free kick, 2 clearances
Wright: 4 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA*
McKay: 6 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA
Cripps: 3 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA
Kennedy: 2 ruck contests, 0 hitouts
*This was probably a fortuitous HTA in that Wright attempted to take clean possession and the ball ricocheted to his teammate.
Cripps just shaded Wright as the most effective ruckman on the ground in the first quarter if you're judging by HTA.
In the absence of HTAs, Goldstein was more effective in the ruck than De Koning in that he had three clearances to De Koning's two. However, Goldstein's clearances were from second efforts after the ball had gone to ground. De Koning's clearances were from a clean possession and a free kick in the ruck contest.
It's interesting that there were only 10 hitouts from 21 ruck contests
Im sure that this stats are all biased based on the midfield roving and their relative opposition. When we played Sydney, we could have had Max Gawn rucking and the result would have been the same.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - laj - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 05:34 AM)pew2 link Wrote:one more thing going by talk back on sen ess supporters are very confident they can beat us ,redman /draper next time. Hodge is another 1 who thinks that to ,My belief is that alot of water to go under bridge
3 of the qtrs. they were smacked. Soon as they challenged Carlton blew them away at the start of the last qtr getting 7 goals in front. Foot went off the throat and Essendon kicked a few junk goals. If Carlton kept the foot on the throat they'd have won by anything. Once your 7 goals behind mid last qtr then you have been well and truly belted.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 08:19 AM)Lods link Wrote:I noticed on the weekend, at centre bounces, his focus was on the opposition ruckman and not the ball.Fair point, I thought he was looking for the contact as Johnson the opposing ruckman I think it was is a strong looking player and more of the push and shove style, the other ruck Jorgansen was more of a jumper and Mirkov I thought handled him better.
Maybe he was looking to be more physical.
Not sure it worked too well though.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - DJC - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 08:31 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Im sure that this stats are all biased based on the midfield roving and their relative opposition. When we played Sydney, we could have had Max Gawn rucking and the result would have been the same.
If you listen to Tom's interview, he goes into a fair bit of detail about the "zones" where he and other rucks endeavour to direct their hitouts. The midfielders work these zones to gather hitouts from either ruck or to tackle the opposition midfielders if they take possession. The ruckmen and other midfielders are engaged with setting blocks, tackling, accepting handpasses, chasing loose balls or attempting smothers. The ability of the ruckman to direct the ball to where his midfielder can take possession is one part of a complex process. When you have two ruckmen focusing on trying to prevent each other hitting the ball to their preferred zones, you get lots of no result contests and several possessions, or half possessions, before the clearance or another stoppage, as happened on Sunday.
We probably would have fared worse with Gawn because he and our midfielders haven't worked and practised together.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - DJC - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 09:13 AM)laj link Wrote:3 of the qtrs. they were smacked. Soon as they challenged Carlton blew them away at the start of the last qtr getting 7 goals in front. Foot went off the throat and Essendon kicked a few junk goals. If Carlton kept the foot on the throat they'd have won by anything. Once your 7 goals behind mid last qtr then you have been well and truly belted.
And Essendon supporters are particularly delusional when it comes to the ability of their team.
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - crashlander - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 09:49 AM)DJC link Wrote:And Essendon supporters are particularly delusional when it comes to the ability of their team.Absolutely!
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - dodge - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 05:54 AM)DJC link Wrote:I just replayed the first quarter and took note of the ruck contests.
Goldstein: 17 ruck contests, 2 hitouts, 0 HTA, 3 clearances
De Koning: 10 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA, 1 clean possession, 1 free kick, 2 clearances
Wright: 4 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA*
McKay: 6 ruck contests, 3 hitouts, 0 HTA
Cripps: 3 ruck contests, 1 hitout, 1 HTA
Kennedy: 2 ruck contests, 0 hitouts
*This was probably a fortuitous HTA in that Wright attempted to take clean possession and the ball ricocheted to his teammate.
Cripps just shaded Wright as the most effective ruckman on the ground in the first quarter if you're judging by HTA.
In the absence of HTAs, Goldstein was more effective in the ruck than De Koning in that he had three clearances to De Koning's two. However, Goldstein's clearances were from second efforts after the ball had gone to ground. De Koning's clearances were from a clean possession and a free kick in the ruck contest.
It's interesting that there were only 10 hitouts from 21 ruck contests
Don't feed the beast, DJC!
Re: AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon - Lods - 06-13-2024
You know what I'm getting from all these stats is this...
Hit out stats are totally useless.
HTA stats are also pretty useless given their low frequency.
Even clearance stats aren't that reliable unless the clearance clearly advantages your side.
The thing that really matters is the connection between your ruckman and his midfielders in terms of positioning, both attacking and defensive, and the second efforts of all players in the vicinity.
That's not something you can measure with a statistic.
It's something you observe.
If you're in any doubt about who was the most effective ruckman in our game last weekend just watch the game again.