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+--- Thread: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park (/thread-3607.html)
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - PaulP - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 12:38 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Her playing weight is probably about 45kg....if that. Not sure how much penetration in your kicking you'll get with that.
She is only 18.
Good points.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - flyboy77 - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 12:38 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Her playing weight is probably about 45kg....if that. Not sure how much penetration in your kicking you'll get with that.
She is only 18.
utter carp Kruddler.
12yo boys weighing a lot less than 40kg can kick 40m comfortably with the right technique....
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - DJC - 02-03-2018
So far I have only seen the club song being sung with gusto and very brief highlights but I have listened to the dissection of the game by both the Outer Sanctum and Grandstand crews. They made some interesting observations:
The last touch rule has produced a counter-intuitive outcome with most play taking place in the corridor and increasing congestion and stifling scoring. Fancy the AFL getting a rule change wrong
The lights at Princes Park shine directly into the players' eyes and aren't conducive to clean marking.
There is a huge difference in skill level between the veterans (like Mo Hope) who are late starters and many of the 20 year olds who have grown up playing footy.
The pathways to footy are significantly different for males and females and the standard of AFLW will remain lower until the pathways converge.
Inside 50s are irrelevant in AFLW. Inside 30s are critical.
Many of the players have lost significant weight and, consequently, the ability to out body opponents.
And my favourite ... Sarah Hosking's comment "I'm glad I'm not a boy!" after D'Arcy kicked her in the groin
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - LP - 02-03-2018
Firstly.
I'm not buying into the naysayers and those philosophically opposed to females playing football. They should start a sky is falling thread elsewhere!
The Game
Counter-intuitively, the massive increase in player fitness and strength has had the opposite effect of what many expected. The game was generally congested because of the tactical focus on tagging. Players like Vescio, Chiocci, Stevens, Davey and Harris no longer have a natural advantage over the rest. You won't see them easily breaking lines like they did last season.
I wasn't expecting the negative tactics from the coaches, I was expecting AFLW to be more attacking. The focus on tagging and defensive structures is all new for the girls, they applied it very well perhaps even better than the men. But the newness of this in their game means the attacking players are yet to sort out how to deal with it. So at least short term we are likely to see less dominance by the likes of Vescio, Pearce, Harris, Brennan, Phillips, etc., etc..
Pound for pound the girls attack the contest and each other as hard if not harder than the men.
I think the AFLW Executive would be a bit worried about the aggression and vindictiveness on show, too much of it and the game becomes intimidating for many girls. The soccer mums(ie. The FA) would see that as a win.
Don't get between the Lioness and her Cub, or in the AFLW case the footy or a team-mate!
I thought the two best players on the ground were both Collingwood, Chiocci and Molloy. But it was clear our defensive structures kept the Pies outside a comfortable scoring zone.
Shorter kicking, 25m to 30m, the girls are as good as the guys hitting targets by foot, judging them as deficient when they miss a 40m target is like judging the guys at 60m!
Handball is still a problem, the lack of power is causing some congestion because handball range is diminished. But see my question about the ball below.
I don't buy into the new rules making the AFLW game congested and corridor centric, the real cause of that is the coaching tactics and the increase aerobic capacity and strength of the weaker players who were previously just chook runners. Some of the body transformations in one pre-season are astounding, there were no unfit players out there.
Keep in mind these girls only assembled for pre-season in November, hardly full-time professionals yet!
Having said that, the new rule will have no effect on play if the umpires are unable to divorce themselves from bringing players back directly over the mark. In any case teams have already learned not to chase the footy so the delay in getting the pill to the nearest player negates that rule. At best it needs tweaking at worst it's not effective.
It may be because of the significant changes in body shape, but it appeared to me the girls were now using the full sized footy. Last year they used the smaller size footy, can anyone confirm the situation for the current season?
Looking at the two teams last night, our list management versus the Pies, I'm not sure we can sustain that game style and make an impact on the finals. The Pies were significantly bigger in build and height, we've gone the diverse mosquito fleet route. That is not a detraction from the play of the smaller girls who often took down larger opponents.
Maddison Gay will be the AFLW best player within a season or two. She moves and thinks like her male counterparts, as team-mates improve she will become an attacking weapon.
I'm a bit concerned about Lauren Arnell and her future, I can see why she stood aside from the captaincy. It's clear the average AFLW player is now faster and stronger, Lauren no longer has the leg speed to keep up and her strength and aggression are no longer an advantage. I hope she can prove me wrong.
Overall I'm very happy with the progress the girls have made, if the guys showed this sort of improvement we'd be on a 3 year rebuild not a 20 year hiatus!
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - laj - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 02:04 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:utter carp Kruddler.
12yo boys weighing a lot less than 40kg can kick 40m comfortably with the right technique....
Those particular boys you're talking about would have as much or even more muscle definition and strength than the 18yo female. It's 's not always about weight. Female's will only kick it 60% of their male counterparts hence if they're playing on a full size ground scores will be very low. juts have to take that into account. Like female cricketers, female footballers need to play on a smaller ground if you want higher scores.
As DJC says, inside 50 is a useless stat for females, inside 25 or 30 is critical.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - LP - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 03:12 AM)laj link Wrote:Those particular boys you're talking about would have as much or even more muscle definition and strength than the 18yo female. It's 's not always about weight. Female's will only kick it 60% of their male counterparts hence if they're playing on a full size ground scores will be very low. juts have to take that into account. Like female cricketers, female footballers need to play on a smaller ground if you want higher scores.
As DJC says, inside 50 is a useless stat for females, inside 25 or 30 is critical.
Comparing females to 14 or 15 year old boys is pointless. Lance Whitnall, Bryce Gibbs and Watson Snr were playing senior football at 15.
I think the girls need to look at Tayla Harris' kicking technique, I think it's better suited to female anatomy. I've seen something similar in martial arts, girls are far more effective at roundhouse kicks than direct kicks. Perhaps it's something to do with their hip and pelvis structure. But for this to be effective in play coaches have to change some tactics, the targets will need to be more lateral.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - laj - 02-03-2018
(02-02-2018, 09:48 PM)mateinone link Wrote:Neither are most Olympic athletes, unfortunately in the women's sports.
Those excuses are all reasonable and make sense, but at the rate of improvement, they won't be quality for 10 years and very few people will be watching then.
I think they need to work around those excuses. It is harder than for men because they have other jobs, but so did most men even well into the 90s.
Highlighting the areas that need to improve and the reality of how much they need to improve is part of the solution.
Draft players and ensure they meet skinfold tests, put training on at the clubs for them year round. If someone says they can't commit.. then draft someone who can.
It should take less than one season of training to be more than good enough to play this game at that level, so you get the players prepared to do that.
Preseason for local football now starts in January for most clubs and they are not getting paid either.
The question is, does the game just continue along with the type of spectacle like last night or does it want to be taken seriously as a sport that attracts sponsors, supporters and the cash flow to allow the girls to play as full time professionals. Remember the men earned the right to professionalism, it wasn't just handed to them.
If the girls want to grow they can't hide behind the excuse (and I am not saying that they are, but others making these excuses for them) that they are not professional and have other jobs etc. They want to be up on the big stage in front of 20,000 paying spectators and televises on national tv then they need to make the SACRIFICE.
Could you imagine the havoc one girl with the ability to be a top player in any U/18 competition could do out there? Just 1?
They would pick up 40 touches and rip it up.
I don't agree with glossing over real issues if you want to succeed. That game last night would have won over very few people and would have lost a number of people that were 'taking a look'.
It does not help with the abysmal commentary team (was it Nicole Livingstone?), which was as bad as any I have ever heard.
It comes back to a simple question. Do the women want to have a professional football league?
If the answer is yes, they need to treat that the same way someone would treat the goal of making the Olympic team and throw everything into it.
Jim, I believe you train Olympic level or those attempting to be Olympic level walkers, How many are paid professional? And how many non professionals come in overweight for a professional athlete?.. I don't know what is required to be an Olympic walkers I am guessing, but I do know those hoping to make the Swimming teams are making HUGE sacrifices with hours of training each day and restricting their diets, with no guarantee of making it.
All of what I have said sounds critical and it is, but pretending that was a good game to watch to me is far worse than pointing out how much they need to improve.
Some are funded and sponsored and, bar Jared and Dane, nowhere to the point of the glamour athletes, other's have to do the hard yards. What's required to make an Olympic level racewalker is similar to an Olympic distance runner. Jared does 160-190k a week. It was better when we had the AIS where we had near all out elite walkers. They could train full time, do their studies as well as part time work at the AIS. There's funding but it's a bit tougher now. Not so bad if you're at university but damn hard if you work full time. Some might work part time together with their funding, a couple are married so they can train while their partner works. Even then you now pay for your own treatments. So, as you can see it's not as easy anymore. We won't be a world powerhouse in our sport that we were when the AIS was the main residential centre giving full support. Showing signs of decline now.
Hope that helps with your question.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - laj - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 03:19 AM)LP link Wrote:Comparing females to 14 or 15 year old boys is pointless. Lance Whitnall, Bryce Gibbs and Watson Snr were playing senior football at 15.
I think the girls need to look at Tayla Harris' kicking technique, I think it's better suited to female anatomy. I've seen something similar in martial arts, girls are far more effective at roundhouse kicks than direct kicks. Perhaps it's something to do with their hip and pelvis structure. But for this to be effective in play coaches have to change some tactics, the targets will need to be more lateral.
You're right. I was only saying it to make a point of comparison.
I just look at Tayla Harris full stop...lol.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - LP - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 03:26 AM)laj link Wrote:I just look at Tayla Harris full stop...lol.
See, that was unnecessary.
Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park - laj - 02-03-2018
(02-03-2018, 07:13 AM)LP link Wrote:See, that was unnecessary.
Lol...not for my eyes, totally necessary.