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+--- Thread: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne (/thread-3198.html)
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - DJC - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 01:06 AM)BluePhantom link Wrote:On Docherty, I have this uneasy feeling he is suffering the David Teague or Corey McKernan Best and Fairest syndrome.
Burst onto the scene and then disappeared.
I'm hoping because he is younger than the other two this is not the case.
Only two games in... so there is still time
I wouldn't be too concerned; he hasn't got the same cover that he had last season and he just seems to be misjudging some balls and not covering a man when he should. His disposal has always been an issue and perhaps it's the other errors that are making his missed targets seem worse. Simmo having a poor day probably didn't help.
He did some very good work in patches but he needs to get back to his more consistent best. Perhaps that will happen when the new defenders get more games under their belts.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - LP - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 02:26 AM)Lods link Wrote:Two options if we're going to send Weitering back.
1) Marchbank forward for a game or two to see how he goes.
2) Rowe goes forward permanently and let the combination of Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman settle. If this rebuild is to take as long as anticipated Rowe is probably not going to be a piece of the final puzzle. If we go this route I'd also send White forward as another mature body.
Youngsters back...old guys forward...and rotate the young forwards through there with a bit of support.
I think Rowe and Plowman are working pretty well together, I'd be inclined to move Weitering back and give Macreadie a fews NBs games while Jaksch or Jones get a run at AFL level. This frees up Marchbank to give us that run off HBF option in addition to Simmo and Docherty.
White can easily slot into a F50 role, he's making a few too many bloopers in D50 for my liking, his foot skills just aren't up to the required standard. I could easily see White and Thomas in some sort of defensive rotation to keep the opposition defenders honest.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - cookie2 - 04-03-2017
Interestingly during the commentary Leigh Mathews was strongly advocating for Weitering to go back to defence in the belief that we are very close to having that area close to fully built. In his thinking, you build on a great defence so we should consolidate that.
I guess the MC's and BB's thinking is that we also need to win a few games, hence Weitering going forward. Be interesting to see where he plays this week.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - LP - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 03:09 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Interestingly during the commentary Leigh Mathews was strongly advocating for Weitering to go back to defence in the belief that we are very close to having that area close to fully built. In his thinking, you build on a great defence so we should consolidate that.
I guess the MC's and BB's thinking is that we also need to win a few games, hence Weitering going forward. Be interesting to see where he plays this week.
I understand the need to get the kids a win or two, but I'm in complete accord with Matthews.
Although I'm not a big fan of going too defensive, see Ross Lyon, I do agree you have to stop opponents scoring before you solve your own scoring problems.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - Thryleon - 04-03-2017
(04-02-2017, 06:26 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Free kick counts, as with all stats, can at times be misleading.
We won the frees 25-12 against the Tiges.
Apart from a couple of things, I didn't think the umpiring was any worse than usual.
I think AFL footy is pretty difficult to umpire to be honest.
I know what you are saying, and I for one wasnt necessarily looking at the count, but there were plenty of occasions where I felt that we were given an infringement against, and then on the flipside they were quick to continue play moving against us.
As for the TIgers free kick count, best not to worry about it, as the person counting forked that up. I know that we were up by 2 free kicks at half or quarter time, was surprised by that stat, and then on the ensuing bounce a holding free kick went the Tigers way and ours increased.
I don't care about the count. The majority of them are fair enough, but I did see Levi push Max Gawn in a marking contest in our defensive half near our goal the free kick immediately paid, whilst Max Gawn went two hands into the back of Kreuzer in our defensive fifty resulting in a shot at goal for the Dees with play on being awarded.
I wasnt the only one who thought it, as a couple of my mates agreed with me via messenger.
At the end of the day, it wasnt the reason we lost. Poor execution was, but I feel as though we have to work really hard to earn a free kick when its there, and they are pretty quick to reward the opposition when its 50/50.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - LP - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 03:15 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I don't care about the count. The majority of them are fair enough, but I did see Levi push Max Gawn in a marking contest in our defensive half near our goal the free kick immediately paid, whilst Max Gawn went two hands into the back of Kreuzer in our defensive fifty resulting in a shot at goal for the Dees with play on being awarded.
On the Levi free I think he was duded, I'm not sure it was even there. From my viewing angle it looked like the umpire threw the ball up over Casboult's head and he basically held his ground under it and shoved Gawn in the chest. Gawn played it up for the umpires. If the umpires think that is fair then ruckmen should start 5m back and run straight into their opponent staging for the free.
The Kreuzer one was just a blatant shove, Gawn should have been penalised. I really don't understand how umpires miss that sort of free kick.
The other bad one for me was the Daisy in the back free, from my angle you could see Daisy take the kid to his knees 1st, before the kid throws himself forward with Daisy rolling to his left side. Good play from the kid, sucked the umpire in big time!
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - Pratty - 04-03-2017
Am no where near sold on White and Armfield still. Nothing to get enthused about there IMHO.
When things are not working, I'd consider -
Docherty & Gibbs switch - Doc to the midfield and Gibbs to half-back.
Simpson to half-forward
Wright & Pickett rover/wing more often
C.Curnow key back
Weitering stays forward IMO. He and Jack Silvagni are working.
My point being, we need a little bit more flexibility. We seem to stagnate and have a plan A and that's it. Nothing wrong with settling players but I'd like to see some more rotations when things are not working, and players are flat footed and getting beaten.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - PaulP - 04-03-2017
Thry, I'm not saying the umpires don't make mistakes, but as I'm sure you'll agree, believing "we woz robbed" by the umps is part and parcel of every footy fan's repertoire. I'm sure if you talk to a Dees fan about yesterdays game, they will have their own examples of biased umpiring.
I would really like to see either a video referee, or an extra umpire on the field to help minimize these issues.
I also think that any half decent coaching panel would anticipate some dodgy calls, and hopefully take this into account when coaching / instructing players - how to set up, not dropping your head despite putting in hard work etc.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - Gointocarlton - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 02:26 AM)Lods link Wrote:Two options if we're going to send Weitering back.Weiters back, Harry in and forward. The back line will be mint, the fwd line cannot be any worse than it is now even with Harry wearing trainer wheels. White is a liability down back and must go. I've said it a number of time, he tries hard but makes too many dumb mistakes at crucial parts of the game and in the worst possible position on the ground to make them. Army also needs a spell, he looked completely out of sorts, looked slow. Seems to have lost that zip and those sure hands, I think I mentioned it during the game, he looked like one of those blokes who is gifted a farewell game having overstayed his welcome. Army has been a terrific servant but it appears father time may have caught up to him.
1) Marchbank forward for a game or two to see how he goes.
2) Rowe goes forward permanently and let the combination of Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman settle. If this rebuild is to take as long as anticipated Rowe is probably not going to be a piece of the final puzzle. If we go this route I'd also send White forward as another mature body.
Youngsters back...old guys forward...and rotate the young forwards through there with a bit of support.
It breaks my heart to say this but Simmo may be coming to the same cross road, happy to give him the benefit of the doubt though for now, he has started slow in the past and then got going to be among our best week in week out.
Re: 2017 Rd 2: Post Game Postulations: Carlton vs Melbourne - LP - 04-03-2017
(04-03-2017, 03:36 AM)Pratty link Wrote:Am no where near sold on White and Armfield still. Nothing to get enthused about there IMHO.
When things are not working, I'd consider -
Docherty & Gibbs switch - Doc to the midfield and Gibbs to half-back.
Simpson to half-forward
Wright & Pickett rover/wing more often
C.Curnow key back
Weitering stays forward IMO. He and Jack Silvagni are working.
My point being, we need a little bit more flexibility. We seem to stagnate and have a plan A and that's it. Nothing wrong with settling players but I'd like to see some more rotations when things are not working, and players are flat footed and getting beaten.
I'm afraid I don't agree with much of that.
Docherty like Simmo is a straight line runner, he won't work out in the midfield.
Simmo might have been that HFF option a year or two ago, but he's lost a yard and wouldn't get separation from a defender. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't pull the plug before seasons end.
Pickett is nowhere near fit enough to run on the wing for more than 1 or 2 minutes, then he'd be cooked for the rest of the game.
Wright is a good one, I'll back him in to have a crack wherever and whenever he is played. You won't see him standing next to a taller opponent watching them mark.
C.Curnow might make a HBF, but the best we saw from him at the weekend was a few limited minutes in the midfield. He's a serious chop-put option for Cripps but needs far more core strength before he can fill that role. He has the lateral movement combined with height that makes him a massively difficult match up, but he has to learn to tackle. Off to the wrestling coach with him!
I've said my piece about Weitering, he's being wasted in F50.
SoJ worked hard after an injury, but the Dees are probably one of the weakest defenses we will come up against and he didn't look like scoring except when they fecked up! We need blokes who look like scoring when we get clean entries, not only when they turn it over. Neither Weitering or Silvagni have the speed to get separation in a clean one on one contest.